Curse

wiz12268 · Aug 27, 2005, 05:13 AM // 05:13

I mean come on. Every time you turn on the game it is tweaked to make it easier for the newbies, and boring as hell for anyone that has been playing it for awhile.

PvE is a joke. The drops are horrendous, even in a team. After you have made your 4 builds and finished the game what else is there to do?

I thought the idea of an internet game with "updates" (basically DOWNGRADES these days) was to keep the game fresh for people that have been playing awhile?

This latest thing with Pro Bond to stop the solo monks. Made that skill useless, but really didn't stop anyone that has a brain from continuing to solo with their other builds or tweaking their bar with their monk. But under the guise of supposedly making the arena a more balanced playing field they hurt a lot of usefull skills. Not just ones that monks were using, they just made sure to tweak that one the most. So once again the PvE side gets the shaft while the PvP side gets a supposed overhaul.

I don't play PvP I don't like PvP, it is an elitetist group of dick weeds for the most part. They have a team, they keep their team. Even if you belong to a decent guild they won't even let guild members into a team as it might ruin their rank if they lose.

So this game is quickly becoming one that only completely new players that just bought it and a few PvPers that aren't completely bored of playing the same people over and over again will be playing. My friends list has about 30 names, my old guild had about 50 members. I logged on tonight for the first time in a week. On a Friday night, when it is supposed to be a prime time. I saw 6 people online out of a little over 50. A couple weeks ago on a Friday night there were 25-35.

Unfortunately I see this game becoming a flash in the pan. A lot of guys I know are even going back to the other stale games since they haven't played them in awhile.

Even this new map that they are coming out with, if they ever come out with it, what will that take a day or so to finish? Then back to the same old boring routine. No drops, and no more exploring.

All I can say is I am glad football season is coming. Guild Wars is obviously not the game I thought it was going to be when I bought it. It isn't even the game I bought WHEN I bought it.

I will check back if/when they have that map installed and to see about any kind of possible expansion pack. But unless it gets any better I will be giving my storage away. I have about 150 ectos, 120 shards, 100 or so rubies and sapphires, a couple of the best weapons I have ever seen in the game, dozens of other near perfect weapons of all kinds, and tons of materials. I will give it a month or so to get the PvE side figured out, but if it doesn't get any better I will be giving all that stuff away, and leaving the game.

For some, it is obviously the balls, but I can't see how the PvE guys can find it exciting anymore. it surely isn't evolving the way one would expect an internet game to evolve, it has actually regressed quite considerably, and that is a shame.

Ilya Khan · Aug 27, 2005, 05:31 AM // 05:31

"I don't play PvP I don't like PvP, it is an elitetist group of dick weeds for the most part. They have a team, they keep their team. Even if you belong to a decent guild they won't even let guild members into a team as it might ruin their rank if they lose."

Thanks for the warm words. But I have just one question for you : wouldn't you love to try playing against something which doesn't stand in your Symbol Of Wrath for an hour, or is that just too exciting to give up?
Why not dethrone these alleged "dickweeds" and hold HoH for yourself? If you ask me, PVE is a joke because you play in a setting in which the AI is just plain stupid. They cast through backfire, run into your traps, and probably have the mental capacity of a seven year old. Why not get some challenge and play some PVP?

and also, you may want to try typing legibly, perhaps shortening your whining little title or something by changing the title to "Do Not Read - Waste of Time" or "Useless Rant PVE>PVP!"

Racthoh · Aug 27, 2005, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Well I still find PvE enjoyable because I haven't cleared the UW or the FoW yet.

PvP doesn't appeal to me at all because it just isn't fair. Let's stick a bunch of random people in a PUG against the top guilds. ToPK is no fun because of it, and any new player to the game will never be able to get in a group of because of rank and fame.

Divine Elemental · Aug 27, 2005, 06:04 AM // 06:04

not true
im not rank 3 but i get into good groups
the ones that actually hold hoh

Sekkira · Aug 27, 2005, 06:21 AM // 06:21

I'll take 68 Ecto's and 103 Shards thx.

the drizzle · Aug 27, 2005, 06:28 AM // 06:28

and thus, the price you pay for not paying a monthly fee. Now, wasnt all the time you spent playing gw worth your petty 50 dollars?

Red Sonya · Aug 27, 2005, 07:07 AM // 07:07

I agree it was easy to get my $50 out of the game, but, really the lack of loot content does rather dry out the want or drive to continue to play. Were the 15k armor more advanced than the 1500gp armor it would have given more of a goal/drive to owning such. As it is, it's merely a money sync and vanity item with little else to give it that wow effect. Armor drops in general would be a nice addition, they can either wear it or sell it or salvage whatever is salvageable out of it. Just something else to look forward to possibly finding. Since I read they don't care about "twinking" from the latest fansite friday review, I see no reason to exclude any wearable armor from the drops.

Weapons as a whole are too samey, there's not really any piece that is better than another or that can't be modified to be exactly like something else (once again a mere vanity item with same stats as a plain ole weapon of the same class is all that's really out there). I took a plain ole collectors long sword and turned it into a Fiery Sword of Fortitude and another as an Ebon Sword of Defense, why pay 100k for some gold sword that has the same upgrades? Once again there needs to be some uber items that only can be dropped and not created. It's what made mmorpgs like Everquest have that drive to play them day after day night after night.

Some say that all swords and axes have the same delay values, if this is so making different delays on them would add more value to looking for them. Once again once you have something of a particular type and upgrades, there's no more drive to look for something else. Diablo 2 had things like slowest, slower, slow, fast, faster and fastest with all different types of weapons. I'd like to see something like that in the GW's weapons to give me something else to go adventuring (farming) for. Farming isn't as boring if you can be sure there is something else out there you don't already have. But, once you get a ton of gold, the most perfect weapon upgrades, then all that is left is "vanity" items and I'm not a "girl" and not into vanity items. I've already created 4 different types of uber swords for different situations just from upgrade drops without ever having to spend rediculous amounts of money on some gold dropped item with the same stats. So my swords look plain, big deal, they still do as much damage as your animation weapons so what does it really matter? Vanity? haha

But, I note from Phinny's statements their main concern and baby for this game is PVP, so for that I can see the trend to keep armor sets and weapons on a pretty boring and balanced scale and just about anyone and everyone can and will have the best of everything and all that is left is "skill sets". While I enjoy the nature of PVP to be "SKILL" vs power, I do miss that from the other games which offered both. There just really isn't enough "item content" in the game that can't be had by everyone easily. The only thing that isn't easy to come by is the 15k armor sets. But, even that for many now is becoming like the Jedi in SWG's, soon everyone and his mothers brothers sisters cousins fathers uncle will have it, then what?

the drizzle · Aug 27, 2005, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Guild wars isnt a "true" mmo, so just think of it this way. You beat a multiplayer rpg, and now its time to move on if you dont like pvp. People that run out of things to do in final fantasy games move on, and thats what you have to do. after sorrows furnace of course.

wiz12268 · Aug 27, 2005, 07:48 AM // 07:48

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Originally Posted by the drizzle

and thus, the price you pay for not paying a monthly fee. Now, wasnt all the time you spent playing gw worth your petty 50 dollars?

To a lot of people 50 bux is a lot of money. Certainly to the kids this game seems to be aiming itself towards. So to down play the cost of the game (one of the most expensive on the market, and one that can SOLELY be played on Anets server) is not a very valid argument.

At least with D2 and most other online games you can play them on your computer stand alone. But that gets boring too. That is why, with a pure online game the bar should be set a little higher.

So this "innovative", "revolutionary", "challenging", "skill based" game becomes just like all the other games that people beat, another box piled in the corner. Because once you go through it a couple times there is not much else to do. Unless you want to spam for a PUG in the tombs and last about 3 minutes in a PvP game against guys that basically live in the arena.

It even says on the box "Join with friends or play so with a band of skilled henchmen". It also says "Create your own avatar from over thirty different professions and hundreds of skills that COMBINE FOR ESCALATING POWER". This last tweak basically made the skills worth using far less powerful. It also says "Explore a world that dynamically grows with new content while you play" I guess that is code for..."if you explore a place too much you will not find any items worth picking up, because we will monitor howmany times you enter a certain map". "...it will be your skill that earns you vistory or defeat" Until you actually learn how to use those skills then we just tweak them to make them almost useless so you have to chose from the 50 other (useless)skills we threw in the game to make it seem like you were actually learning something.

Just read the box it came in. It is trying to sell both aspects oft he game. But in trying to appease one side it hurts another. It goes both ways, but most definately the PvE players get the worst of it.

As far as the AI and all that, so what, that is what computer games are designed around. If I really wanted to do an arena battle I would go do paint ball in the real world. Computer games are just that, games you play on a computer.

Most of the time you know what you are getting. A game that will take 3-7 days to beat, then you won't have to play it anymore, or you go back to it from time to time where you left off. But with all the hype around this game you would expect a little more, and when you go back to this game who knows what they have done to it when you log back on. Grinding is one thing, but wanting to play the game and getting some half decent rewards in the form of nice drops is another. There is hardly a map left where you can get consistant drops from monsters, in a group or solo. Who wants to play the game and not get something out of it but the decent graphics? I am not even talking about farming, I am talking about actually seeing a nice colored item fall once in awhile. I give most of the stuff I find away anyways, except for the real nice stuff, and I trade that for peanuts. Anyone that has traded with me in the other forum can tell you that.

Yes it is free to play online, but it should be, the game cost $50 , and they are forcing you to play online, on their server. If they charged for it they wouldn't sell half the games they do, so that is a business decision they made a long time ago. When a game doesn't have an option to play online or not then it should be free, especially when you are forced to play on their servers, and you don't have a single thing on your computer but a short cut.

Make a single argument to me that shows how innovative and cutting edge this game really is. Other than the graphics it is just like all the rest, but with a worse PvE side. Or worsening PvE side, when I first got the game in early June it was fine. But every steo they take to improve it just makes it less enjoyable to play.

warban · Aug 27, 2005, 07:56 AM // 07:56

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Make a single argument to me that shows how innovative and cutting edge this game really is. Other than the graphics it is just like all the rest, but with a worse PvE side. Or worsening PvE side, when I first got the game in early June it was fine. But every steo they take to improve it just makes it less enjoyable to play.

Um it has streaming technology :P

Numa Pompilius · Aug 27, 2005, 10:26 AM // 10:26

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Originally Posted by wiz12268

To a lot of people 50 bux is a lot of money.

Yes, but it is what computer games cost. And pretty much all other computer games have a total playing time to completion of about 20 hours.

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So to down play the cost of the game (one of the most expensive on the market

Utter and complete rubbish. WoW and EQ2 costs about the same and has an added cost of $15/month. One year of WoW will cost you in the region of $230.

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, and one that can SOLELY be played on Anets server) is not a very valid argument.

1) That it can only be played on servers is not all that strange, considering it's an online multiplayer game. And totally irrelevant to value-for-money to boot.
2) You wont get better value for money with any game.

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At least with D2 and most other online games you can play them on your computer stand alone. But that gets boring too. That is why, with a pure online game the bar should be set a little higher.

Actually D2 was a single-player offline game, which had online multiplayer through battle-net tacked on. The single-player part of D2 took in the region of 30-40 hours to complete for an average player. If anything you've apparently been spoiled by the free online multiplay offered by D2.

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So this "innovative", "revolutionary", "challenging", "skill based" game becomes just like all the other games that people beat, another box piled in the corner.

ALL GAMES DO. Every last one. It's just a question of how long it takes. For me, GW is still going strong after 3 months and several hundred hours played - at a total cost of $50. That's outstanding.

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This last tweak basically made the skills worth using far less powerful.

<70 more lines of whining about how farming is now teh suxx0rz deleted>

Oh NOW I get it - this is a "you killed my 105 monk! You are bastards!" thread, thinly disguised as rational criticism.

The protective bond skill was broken. It was fixed. Live with it. Or not.

wiz12268 · Aug 27, 2005, 03:10 PM // 15:10

No it did not kill my monk. I can still play it. Did it last night. Went into UW and did it just like I always did, I obviously had to use a diffent skil bar, but as mentioned in the OP, there are more than one build that can do it. I even went back in with my E/mo (didn't quite clear the smites), but I had two solid runs in UW and got ZERO colored items(except blue), about 45 demonic remains, and I got a single ecto.

See I actually play the game, and have played it. I have a little over 1000 hours in game time between 4 characters. I didn't get run to Droknars ONCE, I played all the way through in order (following the storyline) for the first 3 toons I made. The fourth one I skipped around on but that one was basically my girlfriend's and she just wanted to see what the elite armors looked like. But I still went into towns in order.

I guess I probably did get my money's worth out of the game. But my main point is that the game isn't even as good as it USED to be let alone getting better. It has just been like some long term real time beta test. When the PvPers piss and moan enough they get what they want, when the people that aren't good enough to figure out the game on their own they make it easier, when people are to lazy to play the game and make money they reset prices and screw everything.

They put in these sets of armor that a lot of people want to have, yet they make them impossible to get in the game, and the ONLY way to get them is to GRIND. Even going solo BEFORE the UW was nerfed/tweaked whatever you want to call it. I was running a solo E/Mo build for awhile and was getting 2-3 ectos a run but it took an hour to clear the areas you needed for ectos. So at 105 ectos that is roughly 40-45 hours of game play. With a solo monk that cut the time down to 30 minutes or so a run. If you are in teams those hourly numbers could triple or quadruple. THEN you have to do uns to get the shards. FOW runs might take 2-3 hours depending on how good the team was and what the aim of the group was. Not to mention that the average shard drop is about .3 per trip in a 7-8 man team. Meaning if you do 10 runs you shoul get 3 shards. So for 3 shards you could easilly log 25-35 hours. Atthat rate you it would take about 1225 hours to find the shards you need. Obviously you can buy them, and that is probably why so many guys are buying and selling gold on Ebay, because like it or not the game is a grind, and even moreso now.

Granted, Fissure armor isn't necessary to play the game, but it is a goal. Once you finish the game there isn't much else to look forward to. So with that in mind the game is a grind to be sure. So why punish the guys that are actually trying to get the armor by making the drop rates fall to next to hours. Even if guys are just running UW to run UW so what? At least they are playing the game and logging some time.

I have no love for the cookie cutter guys who can't figure things out on their own, but some of them spent a lot of time GRINDING the game to make the monks. They spent a lot of gold in game to get the set up, or on Ebay one or the other, they spent either real world money, or time obtaining it in game. That time spent playing the game has been complteely wasted. How do you thinkthat makes them feel?

I wasn't even playing my monk, dam I really haven't payed the game in a week or so. I actually noticed it with my E/mo first. I saw the updates download, but it didn't register until I read what the updates did. It was just Pro Bond they rendered practically usless. They tweaked a lot of strong skills and lowered their dmaage or made the recharge time longer. They of course slipped in some "imporvemets" but mostly on skills that people still wouldn't use.

The game isn't fun anymore. Once they started killing the drops that was whenit began. Continually watching them poke and prod and push the game into a spot where any brain dead can play it (up to a point) is sad. Even making it a single run to infuse all your armor. How does that better the game? Makes it less of a grind I guess, but for the PvPer infusion isn't even something they need. Butthere are several mapss that allow infusion, by playing through the game and exploring PvE you find them. So it isn't really necessary to run that mission 5 times. There are other things they did that "imporved" the game, all it did was make it easier to finish, and thus get bored quicker.

I said it a long time ago, they should have seperated the PvP form the PvP side and made it necessary to log onto another server. Give the PvP guys every skill for every class. Then faction wouldn't be necessary, and "grinding" through the game or actually playing the game wouldn't be necessary. Set them up with all the same stuff as everyone else, and let them go at it, then skill would definately show who was better.

But as it stands right now, when you take from one to give to another it isn't fair to either side.

Malthan · Aug 27, 2005, 04:05 PM // 16:05

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I have a little over 1000 hours in game time between 4 characters.

Don't you think that after spending over 41 days playing the game it can get boring? Most games I played lately couldn't even last 100 hours...a game that keeps you for more than a 1000 surely is worth the 30$

Numa Pompilius · Aug 27, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

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Originally Posted by wiz12268

No it did not kill my monk. I can still play it. Did it last night. Went into UW and did it just like I always did, I obviously had to use a diffent skil bar, but as mentioned in the OP, there are more than one build that can do it.

Heck yes, there's a ton of builds which can farm effectively

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I have a little over 1000 hours in game time between 4 characters.

That means that you've either been a beta tester, or you've played an average of 8 hours per day every day since the game went live. Either way you've played a lot more than most people, and shouldn't be too surprised you're suffering from burnout. Even in games like WoW, which are primarily aimed at PvE, people burn out when they play that long & hard.

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I guess I probably did get my money's worth out of the game.

Are you kidding? Even if you stop playing today you've got outstanding, exceptional, fantastic value for money: you're paying 5 cents per hour of gaming.

If I was to give you any advice, it would be to put GW down for a while. Perhaps try other games (I hear City of Heroes and World of Warcraft are good).

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But my main point is that the game isn't even as good as it USED to be let alone getting better.

Or possibly you just don't enjoy it as much any more.

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They put in these sets of armor that a lot of people want to have, yet they make them impossible to get in the game, and the ONLY way to get them is to GRIND.

Yeah. They're optional content to keep people busy until next update, of course they'll require grind to get.

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Granted, Fissure armor isn't necessary to play the game, but it is a goal. Once you finish the game there isn't much else to look forward to.

Yes. And that is why they're hard to get.

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I said it a long time ago, they should have seperated the PvP form the PvP side and made it necessary to log onto another server. Give the PvP guys every skill for every class.

This I agree with, but I also know it isnt and has never been the vision of ANet.